Have you read this book? It's by Voddie Baucham Jr. I'm only in chapter 2 and thus far, I love it.
Voddie and his wife homeschool their children, they have a quiverful-mindset, and from what I've heard about him and this book, well, it lines up with a lot of our families convictions.
It's really great to see this book and these topics being discussed in more "main-stream" Christianity. Sure, you hear about homeschooling and about being "quiverful" in more extreme, conservative Christian groups (so they are labeled by mainstream Christianity), but this is a wonderful, more well-known pastor - standing up for families, for children, for GOD and His Word. It's awesome!!
I have some quiverful blogs coming (once we get a bit more settled in around here). Kim, over at Life in a Shoe, talked recently about being quiverful. She got quite the mixed reactions, with many harsh, even mean comments from people who use birth control and think it's perfectly fine and acceptable to limit your family size (apparently for any ol' selfish reason). Really? I just don't see this line of thinking at ALL in the Bible.
I think you have to have some seriously grave issues going on (think death or the imminent threat of) in order to be limiting your family size. If you are going to let God control your life, truly give it over to Him, how can you be holding onto this one area? Do you think you really know better than God how good of a mother you are? Or how many children you can "handle"? Or how much money you will make (or need) next year? Really? You know better than God? Interesting....
One other thing she mentioned (Kim, Life in a Shoe) was this idea among many Christian today of "you do your thing, I'll do mine, God just calls us all to different things". Ummm, okay. Yes, this decision is ultimately between a man, his wife and God. But that doesn't mean TRUTH changes. There *is* a right and a wrong answer here. How many times does God call children a blessing? How many times is barreness referred to as a curse? Why would I IMPOSE a curse on my own body? Why would I hide myself from a blessing? How much more obvious can you get??
Last note, yes, there are "exceptions" per se. Yes, some women will DIE if they have just one more child. But in reality, this is not the case with most women out there using birth control. Eventually, my dh and I will have to face a tough decision in this area (most likely). I have had 4 c-sections. While things look great "in there" so far, who knows what the future holds (oh, that's right, my God does!)? We may face a time when a doc tells me it's unsafe to have more children. What shall I do?
More importantly, where is my heart? How do I view children, view families? Society has infiltrated the church most decidely in this area. Now it is simply "the norm" to have 2 or 3 kids, then take control out of God's hands and "be smart" about it. Even in Christian circles, many have never really considered anything else. It's just *what everyone does*. How can that be so wrong?
Oh, I don't know......maybe when we stopped looking to God for our answers and instead began looking to the experts, the "world" and our own selfish hearts. Ouch.
Again, FAMILY DRIVEN FAITH. I'll keep you updated on how the book reading is going.
And just promise me you'll give this topic some thought. So many Christian couples never even really think about this, they stay in their own comfortable little box of well-known and acceptable. Break out, I say, and see how God can bless you!
*Michigan Momma*
10 comments:
Thank you for your thoughts on this - it's nice to know that we're not crazy. :)
I think it's just very hard for people to think outside of cultural norms, even Christians. We are generally willing to go against the flow if God clearly says Thou Shalt Not...but if He only establishes patterns and examples rather than speaking in clear capital letters, people don't want to see or hear it.
Amen!!!! It always amazes me that this is such a controversial topic among Christians! It seems so obvious to me. :o)
OOOO. I have been wanting that book, desperately! Someday!
Wow, I think you really said these things well, Lori.
And yes...I know you will have to face tougher decisions than I have had to in this area....with the C-sections. To cheer you, though, I have a friend who is pregnant with her seventh - all delivered c-section. She is doing and has done well. Now, I know that each woman's physical constitution is different...but it isn't always 3 Cs and no more.
AND...I really like how you address the "you do your own thing and I'll do mine..." and how that it is all supposed to be okay and equal and good and all....
Well, yeah, in some things, right? Such as, your choice of vegetables.
But I don't see lots of wiggle room for this in scripture either.
When you think about it...what healthy woman in scripture DECIDED to stop having children? They didn't. They prayed for children.
Anywhooooo - hope your new home is coming along well!
Love you!
Lori,
What would you say to someone like me, whose oldest is special needs? Also, we have loads of medical bills already, and you know how expensive c-sections are- another one would do my husband in emotionally and physically. I'm finally just getting healthy after 4 years of pregnancy and it's been two years since the last one!
Just curious. This is a touchy subject for me because at one time I was quiverfull, but now I'm scared and so is dh. I wanted a larger family, but that was before I'd had c-sections and special babies.
Lori, just wanted to come back and say for sure that I realize that health is an issue for some women. Sometimes when I feel passionately about something I don't communicate the best. Well, I don't communicate the best, anyway. :)
Health, and as you mentioned elsewhere...mental reasons.
But for couples to flippantly decide they don't want more...just because they would have to get a bigger car. (And that is honestly the excuse I've heard a lot!) I don't think that is valid.
Lori's husband here~
As a husband and wife who are quiverfull, there may come a time in which we have to decide if God trying to send us a message of His will by causing health/medical issues. Is this His way of saying "OK, that's all the children I will be blessing you with." Or, does he want us to pursue becoming quiverfull using adoption? Or, is this a test to see how strong our faith is in this issue?
These are not quick and easy questions, and they don't come (or shouldn't) with quick and easy answers. I agree with Holly that people find ALL KINDS of excuses to limit these blessings in our lives (bigger car, great cost of day care, home not big enough, feel they can't handle the ones they have, etc.), but there are other times when these issues must be weighed more carefully.
Blessings, Dean
www.fjif.blogspot.com
Yep, I agree, Dean B.
Lori, could you pretty please e-mail me?
seekingfaithfulness@hotmail.com
Thank you!
The conclusions that you have come to here are pretty much exactly what the Catholic Church teaches. That we are called to be open to life, but that for serious reasons, individual couples may be called to postpone a child.
Anneatheart, I think the Catholic answer to your question would be that you have serious reason, and are not being called to have another child at this time. However, you should still continue to try and prayerfully discern if this has changed. Things are crazy now, but maybe a year or three down the road, things might not be. We would say that it isn't okay to say "we're done" but sometimes you can say "not right now, but if things change in the future . . ."
If you run across a copy, Lori, you might really enjoy reading Life Giving Love by Kimberly Hahn. She really goes through this issue. She also shares her difficult c-section stories, which I found hard to read, but very powerful.
Lori,
I've been talking with some others in various conversations on-line...and they have been pointing out to me that the actual quiverfull position does not allow for ANY considerations of the mother's health.
I've been on the QF digest for some time, and have not really picked up this judgemental attitude for myself. I have been able to see past those issues, and not judge people but try to apply it to my own life.
So, I guess that I am stepping away from the actual QF label, and simply urging others to examine what the scriptures say about children, to pray together with their spouse about what God has for them, and to not carelessly use birth control without thought.
I may not perceive the QF label so negatively, but many do and are wounded by it. I did not even realize this until just this past week...
What to call myself? I do not know. Pro-life? Seeking God's will for my life, and encouraging others to do the same? Seeking to not rely on my own humanity, but on God's wisdom?
I guess I don't need a label....
:)
I'd love your thoughts sometime after your huge commitments coming up...
Holly, a few years back, someone asked on the QF Digest how people would handle a life or death situation. I would say that 2/3 of the responses said that they would either abstain entirely (with prayer and fasting, per the Cor verse) or use a barrier method/NFP. Some said that they felt sterilization would be acceptable under those circumstances.
I think that there is maybe a vocal minority, but many people who call themselves QF do allow considerations for the mother's health. I think it is up for individual interpretation, like anything else.
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